Transcript: Grief and Loss of Your Little One

A special thanks to Nancy Kingma, MA, LLP, for sharing her experiences and knowledge with us! 

Welcome to the Us and Kids Podcast! I am excited to be your host, Jan Talen. I am a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, a wife, a mom, and grandma.  

This Us and Kids podcast is about how to be married forever while you parent together!  You and I know this isn't an easy task. And that's why I encourage you to subscribe to Us and Kids in your favorite podcasting app. If, after this episode, or another one that you listen to you would be inclined to leave a review, that's always helpful to the other people that are wondering what's the best one to listen to. Your feedback is really helpful to them. 

Let's get started! Our talk today is from an interview that I did a little while ago with Nancy Kingma, an expert in the Grand Rapids area, where I live. She has been working with pregnancy loss and infant loss for over 40 years. And so I had talked with her about many different things that happen through these experiences. Things that no one ever wants to have happen. And so I'm going to tell you what questions I asked her, and then I'm going to give you some of her responses as I sort of condense them down to fit them into this podcast. 

The first thing she talks about is this idea that grief for the loss of a child is called disenfranchised grief, because it's a grief that's not expected.  We never anticipated it. As we became pregnant, either for the mom or the dad, in the pregnancy process, we're anticipating life, not death. And so our brains go, "Wait!! This shouldn't be happening, I'm supposed to have life here. I'm not supposed to be grieving for this. This is wrong!!" And how people experience this disenfranchised grief is different for every couple. For every person in the couple, husband and wife; mom and dad will experience this grief differently. It's really impacted, in some ways, by what our hopes and our dreams and our plans were. But she goes back and says that the intensity of the grief can depend In some ways, about how much you dreamed and drooled over becoming a mommy or a daddy. As you played with your dollies or with your cars and you parented them or lined them up or tucked them in and put them all in just their places; how careful you were about them, how mad you were when one of your brothers or sisters took it away. Those things are things that feed into our hopes and dreams, when we become a mom and a dad.

We can find it hard to think, "Why am I grieving about something that sometimes is hardly the size of my thumb? It's just little. It's not very well developed." Nancy will talk about how it is important for grieving parents to talk with each other about what they remember from childhood, about their dreams and their hopes and how they grew up, because it will help their spouse understand the depth of their grief. It takes a few minutes to process it with each other. It takes a few minutes to process it ourselves. So give yourself four or five seconds and then you'll have it figured out. But really these things pop up in our thoughts, over time, because the grief is ongoing and doesn't just go away. And that means that we might talk about this  2,3,5 or 10 times with our spouse about something else we learned or understood. 

In part of that grief, it's pretty common to think, "Is it my fault?? I did this -  I had two cups of coffee, I slept on my belly, I drank wine or I went out partying with friends. I didn't know I was pregnant!  But I'm sure that's what happened!!"  I want to remind you to be sure to talk about this with your OB/GYN. They are the people who read the research. And so, they are the people who know about what's the latest information and they can give you accurate information. In early pregnancy and loss, those first 12 weeks of baby growth is tender. We know that often it's because genetically baby is not developing well. And that doesn't make it easier to lose your baby.  This Is information that can help us understand our grief, but not take away our grief. 

It's not uncommon to think, especially in a mommy's brain, "I'm inadequate. My body was made for having babies. It's the way it's structured and my body failed me. It's because of ME that I didn't have this little one."  Remember, good friends who understand this can help you think this in a little bit more gentle way. But so can therapists, so can support groups. 

In part of this questioning of is this my fault, we often can have a trauma response. This is a common thought for someone who has experienced trauma -  and death is considered a trauma. This thought of "I am helpless. And if I'm helpless - there's no hope in this."  You see there's a break of the hope and the dream in your baby's death. And there's this helplessness, that nothing could stop this miscarriage. Those are qualities of what we say is a trauma. And in doing some trauma work with a therapist or by some good conversations and doing some good journaling, you can begin to reset, so that the trauma doesn't overtake you and stay inside of you. But instead, that you're able to process that and return back to hopes and dreams. 

As you work to resolve this trauma, your fears goes down - your fear of becoming pregnant, your fear of miscarrying goes down, not necessarily away but goes down, and your anxiety about becoming pregnant and about miscarrying (this can be true for guys and for girls),  becomes less. 

Nancy reminds us that each pregnancy is, in the world of research, considered an individual pregnancy. And so what happened in one pregnancy is not necessarily going to roll over to the next one, or the next one. 

If you need to, be your own advocate. If you would like another opinion, get another opinion, a professional opinion. Not just opinions from friends, be careful with that:). But choose where you get other information from, and make sure you're using information that helps you release your fear or deal with it. Some grieving parents will say, "I'm not grieving this right. I messed up the pregnancy and now. Of course, I'm messing up the grief!"  

Nancy reminds us, any grief counselor will tell you this, grieving happens individually. Because of our personalities, because of those hopes and dreams that are just ours, that sets us up to grieve in our own unique way. 

Nancy does say there are a few stages here that are common to grief, but a little bit different language. The first part of grief is being shocked and just numb thinkng-not-thinking, "I can't believe it." You walk around the house, you look at your baby things,maybe you are still a little pudgy. You just can't quite believe it. And you say, "Well, no, I have to do this, or no I shouldn't do that or, or be careful about this, because we're still thinking, (no shame here) still thinking, "I should be pregnant."  That's part of the shock and numb space. It's normal. Not fun, but normal. 

As that starts to move into the Search and Yearn phase it goes into, "Why, why, why did this happen? Why did it happen to me? I got to get the answers! Or, "well, it happened again! How can I keep it from happening again?  And we go to this place of healing that  searches for understanding our body more, and understanding my baby more. 

Couples do this together, even though you might be in different spaces. If one person is on the search and figure-it-out place and the other person is still in shock and numb place, gently balance with those two stages back and forth.  It's not good for one of you to run away with all the intellectual stuff believing that it will calm down  your spouse who is in the shock and numb phase because it won't. It will keep them in shock and numb. Pace this a little bit so that you're working somewhat together. Not like step step step....I think that's a little unrealistic. Just work it (your grief) gently together. You see, we've moved from our head to our heart from our heart to our head. We want to keep those two pieces moving and not get totally stuck in our head and not get totally stuck in our heart. 

Part of the grief in Search and Yearn is realizing I will never have this baby in my arms. And it breaks our heart. No matter what size or age or situation of this baby, this little one will never be in our arms. And there's true grief in that. Give them space for grief.

Grief comes in waves and in phases and goes backwards and forwards and in and out, and some days are less grief filled and some days are more. This is part of the healing process. It is not fun. It is a part of the process. As the grief process moves on, there is some Reorganization. This is the desire to get pregnant again. The fear becomes less, sleep becomes a little more normal - less dreamy, less troubled less, less overtaking. And there's like, "Okay, we have to fit this into our life somehow. How are we going to do that? Let's keep on figuring that out."

Remember, you and your spouse, mom and dad are going to do these differently, and will move in and out. We'll be in Shock and Numb part of the day and then we'll go to Reorganization and then we'll go to Search and Yearn and back to Shock and Numb. But our spouse will start off the day with Reorganization, and then middle of the day will go to Shock and Numb, and we'll move to Search and Yearn. Then we'll hop back to Reorganization. And so you see, because the couple is doing it differently doesn't it make it wrong.

The important space in this is to keep staying in conversation with each other. Check in with each other; how are you doing today? Where did you think about our little one?  and somebody might say, "I didn't."  It's okay. This isn't rejection of your little one, this was part of Reorganization where they dove into work and they gave the rest of their emotions a minute to rest. 

Everybody does grieve differently. Talk about it, remind each other of your love for each other. There are three steps here. 1. Talk about it.  2. Remind each other of your love for each other. This is where you sit on the couch together where you hold hands, where you give a real hug. And maybe a sweet kiss to each other two or three times a day. 3. Listen in....3. Do something normal together. If you make dinner together, pre bab- pre- pregnancy, do that again.  If you usually went on walks with each other if yo,u usually watch the show together. If you ,sually paid bills together, whatever you usually did together, do something together again and some more.  15 to 30 minutes of togetherness in a "normal way"keeps you on the same page. It gives each other support. This isn't to block the grief out, instead it's to incorporate normalness into the grief, because the grief is ongoing, but so is the normalness and this is a part of that Reorganization that brings more stability. 

As long as I'm talking about couples, one of those things that is tender in this grief place is the conversation about sex. And somebody wants it and somebody doesn't have it. And somebody will say, (and this is true for men as well as for women), "I can't. That's how we got pregnant, is by being intimate, and it has so many triggers for me, that it just sends me in this dark hole.

These aren't the only two responses. On the other side of the spectrum is the experience that intimacy opens up a space where I can grieve. Oh, that's a thought. "When I'm that close to you, I feel safe enough to actually let my grief come to the forefront. But I need to be that close to you, in order to experience it and I know I need to grieve. I need you really close to me to do that."

Oh, this is where those conversations gently, oh so gently, with lots of compassion, not critical, less fear can be spoken. Lean In with each other and talk with each other about it. Not all intimacy is just a distraction to get yourself away from the memory of your baby/ies that's not with you.

Some intimacy is healing. And that's where you figure out what that is, for each of, with kindness and with acceptance of your spouse's space. 

Once again, I'll say it. If you need to get some help, talk with a therapist to help organize this funky space.  I'm a therapist, I know that nobody wants to bring their bedroom to me, and yet the reality is us therapists talk about the bedroom stuff, a lot. We know the language for it. We know how to process it with you without being too graphic or too gross. And we have good tips that can help you in connecting with each other. 

So now let's move on a little bit to the social side of things.  Some people will say, "Well, you named your baby??? You named it!?!  It's not even alive! It wasn't even very big!" Or, "Oh, what did you name it??"   Mom and Dad, when you get that kind of reaction (and they may not say it that verbally but you can see it in their face), take a deep breath. Naming and not naming your baby, however you deal with it, is up to you. You are the mom and the dad of this little one, and you get to choose what's the best for you.

Sometimes a name is helpful because it gives you a way to think, and to talk about the little one. So, I thankfully I have never had a miscarriage. But all of our babies in utero were named Herbie from a very old movie called Herbie the Love Bug. And so affectionately, people asked, "Is that what you're going to name your baby for real??" We were like, "Oh, no, we just have to have something to call our little one while we're pregnant."  We were in pre-historic days where you did not find out anything about your baby.  It was rare to even have an ultrasound. So, we never knew if we were having a boy or girl. So Herby worked for us.  It helped us talk about our little one without saying baby or something else. It personalized it enough for us. 

Sometimes names help to validate our loss. People might not necessarily name their baby the name that they were going to give the child in life. They will move it to a different name that might be Hope or Joy because that's what they're going to get from this experience. Some people really know in their hearts and their minds, sometimes because they've held their little one and seen that they have a little boy or little girl, and then they pick a name around that. 

A name, in whatever way you create to talk about your little one, can also be helpful to other kids in your family. If you have other little ones around and you are processing some of this loss with them, they might find it helpful to know their sibling's name.  All the other kids they know have names, so this would make sense to their minds.  And so, when they want to talk about their family, they will often want to talk about their little brother or sister that's not with him, but they're going to need a name. So help your child with that language as well. 

Some people I know have just named it after the month. However you name your baby. However you talk about your baby -  communicate that with your kids, so that they have language for it as well.

So let's move on.  In the real world of interactions, there are people around who are going to say,  "Oh what a cute family!  Is that how many kids you have?" or "Do you have more?" or they'll say, "How many kids do you have?" Oh... I know this as a grandma because I have grandbabies in heaven. I don't always know how to answer. It can often be circumstantially independent, meaning this: When it's appropriate, say,” I have three children, right here around me underfoot. Then I have __ little babies in heaven.”  Some moms will say, "I have to mention my little one that's not in my arms because otherwise I don't give it any dignity. There's no respect for this little one if I won't talk about it.  I talk about the rest of them. I talk about this one too. And so, they mention it because it honors their identity as a mom or as a dad. This is individual, you can choose when to mention, if you want to, about having little ones here and two in heaven. I have five and one in heaven. Whatever is best for you. Remembering that your spouse may be different than you. 

So, the two of you are going to talk about that. And you're going to talk about the language for it so that your kids know what the language could be... and so that you and your spouse are together on how to talk about your little one.  

One final thing here. We have people who say, 'How many kids do you have?" but from that. When you say, "I have three children here, and one in heaven", then you can get a strange comment like, "Oh, why'd you tell me that??" Or, "Oh yeah, that happened to a friend of mine too." And they will say something, sort of out of ignorance, or they will put their own coping skill on what they expect you to do. It might sound like this: "So, yeah, my mom had a miscarriage too but we never talk about it. Why are you talking about it?" Their coping skill is to never talk about it, but you might have a different coping skill which is okay! 

Don't be afraid, mom and dad, to be empowered and to speak back a little bit. You might be able to say, "Well, this is how I feel.  My child that is in Heaven is as precious to me as the other ones here. I would never tell you because you'll see three and I have a fourth one over on the other side of the playground that I only have three children. I would tell you I have four. And so this is just integris to me." You might also be able to say, "Well, I understand where you may think that I should just let this go and not talk about it. But I have had hopes and dreams for this little one. And those hopes and dreams don't fade just because I don't hold them in my arms."  These are just a few ideas of some language and responses.  I am sure that you can build on it and adjust as you would like to, and use it when you find it wise to do so.

At times these conversations also help the person who said this strange comment, who was sort of tripping over their words to do a little more learning. They're not really ill- intentioned. Sometimes they're just not very well informed. They were trying to be helpful in some way, they just didn't really know what to do. 

So, in so much of this conversation that we've had today you've heard me say over and over and over again, kindness, grace acceptance, understanding. Qualities that take strength from us as it takes strength to use them but also these qualities also build strength in us.

Grief is ongoing. I know mommies who and daddies who have had that little one in heaven for 5 years,  10 years, 40 years, just like they haven't forgotten their children running around them, or they're paying college tuition for, or they're now grandparents to their adult children's kids, they still remember those children, their children. 40 years later, because they're real.

So I encourage you to share this with your spouse, share this podcast with other people who might be helpful to understand more. The DNA for Fun course on the Us and Kids website helps to build these communication skills that helps to process this kind of grief. It isn't written exactly for this grief, but the skills are useful at any level here. And if you want a little more support, without going to a therapist, this course would be helpful in processing your grief. If you need more information before, be sure to just email me at support at us and kids.com, and I will gladly talk with you, email with you a bit and help you figure out your best next step.

This is not an easy journey, not for you or for the friend you're walking alongside. Be patient, be hopeful. Love your children as best you can, in whatever way is best for you. 

Once again, our thanks to Nancy for her willingness to share her knowledge with us. She would pass on that her knowledge only came because of the families that shared their grief and loss with her.  She hopes that by sharing this info, she is honoring those that have traveled this tender road before. 

I'm cheering for you and, in my world, I am praying for you too. 

I look forward to talking to you next week. 

Bye bye.