Transcript:  Naughty or Nervous?

Hi,
It's the Us and Kids podcast time, your time to absorb a bit of anything that will encourage you to stay married forever while you parent together. I am Jan Talen, a marriage and family therapist, a wife, a mom, and a grandma. And I know, like you, the ups and the downs of trying to do it all. This podcast is all about living your busy life as best you can each day and as you do, we know that you will avoid that ugly D word of divorce. It will not get in your way. We write and post each podcast with a printable so that you can truly get the info you need so that you can have more joy and more connection out of each day, each kiddo, each kiss and each cry. We're entering our second set of 100 podcasts with some good changes in store.

Our podcasts are going to come to you now every other week with a bit of reminder and printable link on the social spaces in between giving you more time and room to listen and use what we talk about. Of course, our other podcasts are always easy to find right on the Us and Kids website. Any refresher is just a click away.

And today we are gearing up to send our kiddos back to school or preschool, or perhaps just a more structured schedule to the day in the week. And we could easily be noticing some changes in our kiddos as well. Maybe even in ourselves. I was talking to a mom the other week about her kiddos behaviors as they were doing the clothes-size shuffle.

You know, when you really look at your kiddo and you realize, oh, those clothes don't fit them. Oh, we have nothing for fall. And so you're off to shopping or trading with friends or hauling out the bin and starting to just sort through the clothes again. Ooh, her kiddo did not want to do this. She approached it nicely.

She introduced the task. “We're going to do this tomorrow morning. That's why I haven't put your clothes in the drawers.”
And the kiddo ran away.
Morning came and the mom said, “Come on. Let's try on some of these clothes.”
Her kid screamed, refused, stubborn as can be.
And she's wondering what is going on.
This kiddo is experiencing anxiety.

It sure looks like this kiddo is just trying to be naughty, just resistant. Anxiety is this reaction in the brain and when it senses something scary and it thinks that it needs to protect the body. That's its job: to recognize things that are scary or dangerous and then work to protect it.
The emotion center in the brain is called the amygdala. This is where this quick and decisive action happens. It's always reading and checking for these signs of danger, either real or perceived and it’s true for  kiddos and adults. The brain doesn't really tell the difference at first glance how old you are. It just sees danger. It moves quickly. Your brain does. And your kiddos brain moves very quickly into survival tactics. We know them as the fight, (what the kid was doing), the flight, kiddo also trying to do that, and the freeze as understood by these words, “I can't, I won't, I won't, I don't, I won't, I can't,”... all of those things.
That's what's happening to this kiddo while mom is trying to just get the clothes transition job done so she knows what other clothes her kiddo needs. But our kiddo is just afraid of losing his favorite PJ's, which are soft, comfy shirts that he loves that are so soft, it feels so good. 

Maybe he thinks that if you take the clothes away, he won't have anything else to wear. Maybe he doesn't want to give his clothes to his younger brother. That's too much sharing. And maybe he's afraid of not liking those other clothes. They will be scratchy or itchy, or just not feel the same.

He perceives it as dangerous. We know it's not, but he doesn't know that. And so we have to just pay attention and understand that our kiddo is just scared. Kiddos can look different with a lot of different behaviors. They're not really observing or knowing that labels to their feelings such as worried or anxious or nervous, but they do know the feeling.

They just don't know the words. They know the feeling and how to react to the feeling so that they can get rid of that feeling and fast!
So their body is going to do the work of one of these 10 actions as I talk them through. I invite you to remember that I'm talking about how anxiety and nervousness shows up in kiddos.

They're not trying to be naughty. They're just trying to tell you they're nervous. So we just talked about the first one. When our kiddo looks angry or hostile. It's loud, it's powerfully pushing either a yes, yes or no, no! Whichever one will help them feel more safe. 

The next one we're going to talk about is avoidance and avoidance looks like this defiance or this oppositional behavior. Three of the most common examples that I hear in my office are: “I'm not going to do that.” ( Though, that might come more from a five-year-old or a seven-year-old than a three-year-old.

But a three-year-old or a two-year-old might just be saying no. Or “Me do!!”

Other words of similar idea that would say, “Not happening! “You're not the boss of me!. Us moms and dads look and go... Hmm. “I do think I'm the boss applesauce. I'm a good boss, but I am the boss.” And our kiddos are saying that, no matter what you say, I'm not going to do it. So you try bribing: I'll give you some gum afterwards, or your favorite cookie, or we're going to go see grandma.”

And they're like, no, no, no, no.
What they're trying to tell you is that they're scared.  You and I both know they do want that piece of gum or that sucker. They would go see grandma. And so their “no's'' don't make any sense to our brain because we aren't nervous. Now.
Maybe we're getting nervous whether or not our kiddo will cooperate with us, but we're not nervous about this clothing transition process..

 They are. And they're trying to tell you that by just being a bit avoidant and defiant.

Another way that kiddos tell us that they're nervous is they just have this heightened level of emotion. Now, sometimes this is running up and down the hall, just screaming. Sometimes it's crying, sometimes it's just jumping, jumping, jumping, jumping, or twiddling their thumbs or throwing things. It's all this body behavior that happens when a kiddo is nervous and their brains just get sort of super wound up around it.

They need this heightened emotion to get rid of the nervousness and the anxiousness that they have around changing out their clothes or whatever else is in front of you.

It's not easy for them to do transitions. They haven't practiced them nearly as much as we have. They don't always know, like we have, that the outcome of this is going to be fine. They don't know that, but you do. And so these heightened emotions of crying or screaming or that their body is just moving in explosive ways is their way of saying “I'm scared, mom/dad.  They are not trying to be naughty.

You can hear it. We just talked about it a little bit because the fourth point is they are just running away or they're hiding and you're wondering where they are and why they don’t stay focused and near you.  You (as the parent) know that there are other, often more fun, things to do...but those other activities can’t stick in your kiddo’s brain because he is just scared.

You might remind them that you were going to go to the library.  And your kiddo is not listening. She won't come out from the dog crate, won't come out from the closet, and lock themselves in the bathroom. They don't like what's happening and they know that they just want to escape it somehow. This running or hiding is a part of that flight response.

When they're just so overwhelmed that they just want to just shut it all down.

We have this flight response when we have a sense that our physical safety is not in a good place and we use it as a means for survival. Your best option here, when it comes to parenting, is not to become more pressured and more insistent. Your best choice here as a parent is to sit down as near to them as you can get and let them be safe as they calm down and gradually become safe. 

This might mean that they watch a show for a minute. This might mean that you pass a piece of clothing to them because maybe they'll try the shorts on under the bed. And we say, just feel how soft this is. Or we say, look at this one that has sequins and they change color when you twist it in different ways. Look how cool that is. 

And you might even say, let's turn off the light and see once if they sparkle. You can see I'm going to work very hard right now to make sure that they are feeling safe because as they feel safe, they will come out from their hiding place. This is not naughty. This is their brain doing exactly what it's programmed to do and keeping them safe. It is number one on the list of what their brain is made for. 

Number five, it often sort of looks like just the opposite, but this is when our kids are clingy when they're just hanging on to us. This often happens on the first or second day, first or second week of school. But lots of other places as well, where all of a sudden they're just clinging and they want to be carried and they want to be held and they want to be buckled in their car seat when they can do it themselves. And they're just hanging on.

 This is their way of saying they're scared and you are their safety. Now, as a parent,  recognize that it is delightful that you are their safety. Because when you are their safety, you know what? You have shown that you are trustworthy, that you are there for them.  Just the fact that they know that this about your relationship with each other  is crucial and wonderful. It doesn’t make the clingingness more fun, but it can add a bit of patience and calmness for your own heart.
The clinginess is a way of saying, I trust you, mom, I trust you dad. And that part is wonderful, but still we (as parents) still  have to go somewhere and get tasks done.  And that may mean your kiddo can't hang onto your leg. What are we going to do?

Once again, we're going to slow down. Take the extra three minutes of being late. You're going to spend it here or you're going to spend it down the other end with your kiddo screaming. So you're going to spend it here, just gently hugging and holding and calming. Some ideas for your clingier kids might include buying a bracelet that you don't care about that much that you can share with your kiddo when they go to daycare.  This is to remind you that mommy is close and is coming back. Sometimes we share our business cards with our kiddos and remind them that we are going to meet again when our work day is done. And we say, if you need me, you can tell your teacher, here's a way to find me.

Now teachers are equipped. They know what to do with this. Okay. I know little kiddo. He took a new business card every day for probably a year. But Hey, in the school, he walked into preschool with his business card in hand. Teachers got used to, they were good with it because he walked in confident he was clinging to the business card instead of to his mom and screaming.

Do what works. Sometimes it's a penny. Sometimes it's a kiss that we put on our hand and then we push it into their heart and they put their hand over their heart and they hold it close. Do you see how this works? Sometimes I don't always want to give a bribe or a treat but instead want to encourage the kiddo to be brave.  So I’ll make a chart or a challenge with a goal and stars or stickers and a reward (like ice cream or some fun activity together).
This process is usually not easy; it is worth the work and effort.  And so be  patient with them as you work with them as best we can. And your kiddo will grow in confidence and sense of safety and become less clingy to you.

When anxiety is ongoing because of continuous changes, our kiddos can just be worn out - emotionally and physically. Some of this has happened this year between COVID rules and needs and all of the adjustments of what childcare is open, what is not, who is helping take care of them today and what are the school rules today?

The kiddos wonder about what they can and can not do. They wonder about when and hwy to wear a mask and if it’s OK to go into a store. What are we doing now? All of that is weird to kiddos and they have been under a pretty good amount of continual stress and pressure, trying to make sense out of things that even as adults can't totally make sense out of.  My suggestion for you is to stay compassionate.

Your brain and your kiddos brain has been working so hard to figure all of this out and to control their impulses that are driven by fear and confusion. They want to be able to listen to you and follow instructions. However,  their ability to focus on what they are supposed to be doing and doing it well can be really hard to maintain because their amygdala has gone into overdrive over assessing everything around.

They're trying to make sense of it. So, a couple of things from the adult side of things. Turn the news and your chatter about the scary things in the world off and get it off your phone. Stop the TV or the radio from perpetually running news and information. Our kiddos can not process this information but they can and do pick up on your fears and frustrations. If you do not know what to do/feel/act/perceive - remember that your kids are picking that up from you.  Over-information for them is over whelming and scary and will often send their brain into overdrive. 

Even just telling a kid perpetually about the bad germs that are out there and that there are so many bad germs that lots of people are dying, isn't helpful to a kiddo who can do nothing about it. And so they begin to perceive that people will die all over the place, but we don’t know who or when or where who's going to die. Is my mom going to die? Is my grandma going to die? Is my friend going to die? And you can see they just go into overdrive. 

So turn down the noise about the scary things. Turn down the scary shows, find the really blah boring ones, take down the scary ones that always have a good versus an evil, always a good guy in a bad guy, because it turns their little amygdala back on, pumping anxious energy into their bodies and brains.  They want to focus. They want to be able to accomplish tasks.
First of all, we have to turn down the scary and slowly, the amygdala will settle down.  This takes more than 30 seconds, this is like five days or a week of building in calm so that slowly that amygdala will settle down. As we lower the scary info, it will begin to run at a normal pace. You'll be able to have them focus a little more.

This is tough parenting. When our kiddos do not pay attention, it's like they don't even hear us. Stay patient with this and understand what they're doing and understand what you're going to do. Be intentional so that your calmness and care works in the relationship.

Our next one is a kiddo who asks questions over and over and over again. In general, we would say it's not normal for a kid to ask questions 25 times every minute or every five minutes - that's a lot of questions for a mom or dad to be able to answer.

But when a kiddo doesn't know what to expect, their anxiety goes up. And that means that they have to find a way to cope with it. One way that they do that is by looking for an excessive amount of information. So, mom, what about this? Mom, will the sky be blue? Mom? Will we get ice cream when we get there? Mom, will grandma be there? Mom will? Mom, can we? Mom? (And I'm using “ mom”, because that's what usually gets said to me, but it could be dad.)

The kiddo could just be just talking to nobody - just to the air. “What about, can I bring my Legos? I want to bring my sandals too. Um, I need my stuffy. Where's my blankie. Um, can I bring those five books too? I love this book. Mum, do you love this book? What about this book, mom?”... And the questions can just go on and on and on.

Hear that part of what your kiddo is doing is blowing out air he's blowing out the carbon dioxide that feeds the amygdala and helps to create some of this anxiety.
Bend down, hold their hands, look them in the eye, give them more touch, give them more direct connection with you.
Answer their questions.

It’s also possible to use a timer to help slow them (and their flow of questions) down. Set it for 30 seconds. (Be true. 30 seconds, don't lie.) And when it goes off, they can ask their next question. Or give them a short task to do before they can ask their next question. Will you please help bring this to the car so that we can keep going? And just as patiently as you can you work towards calming their little brain down with less information and more connection and care.

I know, you have to keep your own lists going, get your own stuff in the car.  Perhaps making a list for yourself will help so that you aren't trying to store all of your information in your brain while also trying to focus on the needs of your kiddo. So, use some self-care for your self to keep your anxiety lower too.  The more you can pause and focus on your kiddo, the more they will calm down and cooperate.

Now, another way our kiddos show that they are nervous is by their urgent and persistent request for validation.
Mom, do you think that dad thinks that I did that?
Look mom. Did I do a good job over here?
Look, mom, I've got my pants on. Did I do a good job?
Hey mom. Hey dad. What about, can I do this too? I bet I can.
Mom, can you try it with me?
What about their need for validation?

The anxiety creates within our kiddos a thought and/or feeling that there is something wrong with them.  

You see, they're just worried that because they feel so crummy, it's their fault. And now we realize that that's what all those questions are about. All those questions are about your kiddo wondering if they are OK - as in being wanted or belonging to you, safe with you, protected by you?
Will you miss me?
Do you love me?
Those questions are about, did I do something wrong? Am I a bad kid? Should there be shame on me?

And we want to answer to those kiddos.
No, no shame on you.
Nothing is wrong  with you, you are doing a great job.
I believe in you.
I trust you. I know that you can do this.
You know how to ask for help if you need to, you can ask for help if you need to, but a validation here that they are of value, that they are important, that they are not forgotten or worthless.
These seeds of uncertainty, shame and loneliness are not what we want planted into our kiddo's head right now. Calm them down and recognize that validation is a valid way of saying I am nervous. 

Number nine is often we call sort of the buttery or butterfly effect. And it's when a kiddo's digestive system is in an uproar. It happens to us. It also happens to our kiddos. The temporary slow down of a digestive system is the body's way to conserve energy because they have a sense that you're going to need it later. And so that's why kiddo say they have a tummy ache when they're nervous is because their whole digestive system has just paused.

And it's not very normal for a digestive system to just pause, but it is because their body has sensed  nervousness and danger. And so it says, “ I have to conserve all the energy I can and creates a tummy ache, which makes a kiddo want to lay down or cuddle next to you. And once the perceived danger is gone, so is the tummy ache because they don't need that energy anymore. And now the kiddos hungry, ready to run and play again. 

This is normal. We experienced it as adults and often can recognize it as nervousness, but we don't give much credit to our kids. The same can really be true for them and an instruction to get up, just do what you just have to do it will probably make the kiddo do it, but really won't calm the anxiety and the nervousness.

What can we help with? What do we know how to do? And when we help a kiddo, see what they do know how to do. That they can do what's being asked of them, then they calm down and they're more able to try it. Key words, try it. Often you're also going to say, I will help you try it. I will be here with you while you try it.

 As the kiddos understand this kind of busyness and what their body is feeling it is so important for us to validate who they are and what they're able to do. It’s not always easy to do,  but it is important to do. 

The last one is our kiddos sleeping. Night waking is pretty common when our brains are functioning in a place of anxiety. It's more hypervigilant. It's more nervous and anything down the hall or a scary dream or a funny noise can help them imagine things happening that they didn't want to have happen.

For you, the parent, it’s important to be patient. Sometimes this is just sleep on the floor next to them. It was hard for me to know, when I was parenting, what was the better deal? You know, because on one hand, I didn't want them to rely on me sleeping next to them all the time. When they're infants and very young, I understood that, but as they grew, I wanted them to have some confidence that they were safe without me next to them.

Some of this is your own best judgment. When you can see your kiddos are going through a really changing space, continue to find ways to be calm. For example, for a while we just had a little bed next to our bed. It was really just a sleeping bag, but if the kiddo got up, we could just help them climb in the sleeping bag.  I'd throw my hand over the side of the bed. They'd hold onto my hand. We both would fall back asleep. My arm would fall asleep and then I'd put it back on the bed. But my kiddo was asleep and I had slept.
So, without shaming, without saying you may not get out of bed - that is naughty to do, we're better off just being very kind and gentle with them, helping them talk through during the day, the things that made them nervous or were scary or were weird. And comforting them with closeness.

And as you talk those things through and get them out of their body and into some words that make sense to them you can perhaps add a coping skill or two that they can do. They often settle down and become more calm in their sleep.

So we've talked through many of these different ways that a kiddo's nervousness can look like they're being naughty.

Now I'm going to give you a concise list. I've thrown ideas in throughout this podcast, but I also want to now also be sure that you just have a concise space where you can go to. It will be on the printable as well so that you can quickly help your kiddos get rid of some nervousness, even if they can't label it, as you do some of these things with them or encourage them to do them by themselves or just to some other music.

Move their body. This means run, jump dance, do somersaults, freeze tag.
Sing. Yell. Laugh or cry.
All of these things blow out air and air has carbon dioxide in it, which creates a build up in our brain that says there's a dangerous substance in our body. Carbon dioxide is poisonous to us. All of these things that I've just mentioned with your body movement and singing, yelling, laughing, crying, blows out air and gets rid of that extra carbon dioxide.

Some other things to do:
Touch things like something soft or something warm or something squishy or something cold: ice cubes, frozen fruit, an ice pack.

Wrap up in a blankie. Sometimes we make it like a burrito and then we just rub their back and their whole body while they're in a burrito format. And then they end up giggling.

Some kids really enjoy a bath or a shower.

Some kids will say, I need a drink of water and then they want a crunchy snack or they want to chew a big piece of gum.

Yoga. Slow freezing melting movements can help.

Remember that your kiddo  might calm down by helping you. They might like to do something with you. And so you pull up a stool next to them or as you walk to take out the trash, you hold their hand or they help you push the trash can. And while you do you talk about positive things with them.  You might tell them  about how much you love them, how strong they are, how smart they are, how good they are at helping with their baby sister or how good they are at coloring.

Some kids would prefer to write or draw or create. So they would like to use their papers or their pens or their Legos or their dolls, or Play-Doh.

Some kids want to be close. And so your hugs, your snuggles and your giggles may take three minutes of time, but it will calm up everything down and you will get back those three minutes because they are in a better space.

Some kiddos, and maybe even you would like to just pray and they might like to sing a prayer. They might like to pray a prayer. They might like to say a word or a verse from the Bible that they know that helps them be calm.
Some kiddos might like to call a friend. It might be their grandma. It might be their friend down the street. It might be their cousin. That might be one of your friends that they think is their friend.

Other kids like to do things that have pressure. So they might like to do arm chair push ups, or just pushing their hands together as tight as they can. or they might like to do squats or even some pushups. They like to do things that have pressure by pulling or pushing such as. standing between a doorway and pushing their arms, trying to push the door jam apart. Now they have to be big enough to reach the door jams. But they might like to do things like that. 

These are ideas for you and your kiddo, no matter how big or little. They can help you experiment and find out what will help them feel better.  They don't want to feel crummy. They don't want to act naughty because really they're just nervous.

I want to thank you for joining me today, as you know, and we know, stress and anxiety for our kiddos can build off from our own stress and worry. The Us and Kids communication program is ready to roll again in September. Be sure to take a look at the website, UsAndKids.com and the Facebook pages so you can be ready to upgrade your marriage and your home life with lots and lots of good.

So glad you stopped in.
We'll talk again in a couple of weeks. Bye bye!