Transcript: Boudaries
Welcome to the Us and Kids podcast. I am your host, Jan Talen. I'm a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, a wife, a mom and a grandma. This Us and Kids podcast is about how to be married forever while you parent together. You and I know it's not an easy task. So I encourage you to subscribe to Us and Kids in your favorite podcasting app. I'm really glad you're here, so that you're marriage and your home can be fulfilling and so very good.
Boy! Do you think that it's hard to believe that half of 2020 is behind us??
Unreal! Right??
Do you just feel overrun? It's been an unusual year, the kids do what they want. They decided not to go to school. They stay home. You decided not to go to work. You stayed home. You worked more. You worked less. And those things about boundaries and cooperation might have gone....I don't know... right out the window; right down the drain!
What to do? What do you think? Do you think, " Oh my, oh well!" Do you just give up and think that maybe you'll reset, come 2021? Maybe you're thinking, "Well, I'm pretty sure it's not worth the argument, the fight, and the tension, if the easy way out is their way. That's going to be the good way, even if it's not a good way."
What good are the boundaries and the rules if no one obeys them? What good are they if you can't keep them steady and live within them? We know that boundaries help to define acceptable living choices and or behaviors. For adults, these boundaries usually have to do with living kindly, with compassion and fairness, balanced in with justice and mercy within your family unit and towards yourself and others.
This broad guideline can be applied to family finances, language, use of tone and touch, as well as interactions.
ed home. You worked more, you worked less. And those things about boundaries and cooperation might have gone. I don't know right out the window or right down the drain.
What to do, what do you think,
Do you do, “ Oh my, oh well. Oh, we'll just give up and maybe we'll reset come 2021.
Maybe you're thinking,” Well, I'm pretty sure it's not worth the argument, the fight, and the tension. If the easy way out is their way. That's going to be the good way, even if it's not a good way.
What good are the boundaries and the rules if no one obeys them? What good are they if you can't keep them steady and live within them. We know that boundaries help to define acceptable living choices and or behaviors. For adults, these boundaries usually have to do with loving kindness, compassion and fairness, balanced in with justice and mercy within your family unit and towards yourself and others. This broad guideline can be applied to family finances, language, use of tone and touch for running a household. For example, a wise boundary in a household might be no ugly name calling. For my husband and I, Chip and I, as a couple, we looked towards what we wanted our relationship to look like, and feel like. That's the D - the desire - in DNA For Fun Communications Course we talk about it. We knew that ugly words stuck pretty tight for either one of us. So we made the boundary and we said, ugly names shouldn't be used in word or in thought between us.
We know other couples who think those words just roll right off we just fight, we throw the ugly words but they roll off. And because they roll off for us they should roll off for you too. And sometimes one person in a couple says, "Oh, no, those ugly words don't really bother me." But the other person says, "I never forget them. They stab my heart, and I'm always bleeding because they rock my world, and shake my confidence." It's wise then to be able to figure out what is the best boundary, what is the best rule that you both can live within that keeps you both safe.
Okay, let's keep talking a little bit more about boundaries. Mostly we're going to think of it in terms of boundaries and rules within your household for the kids.
Remember, mom and dad, that you guys are the leaders. And if you don't keep the boundaries, the kids will not keep them very well either. They will keep a few of them you do it out of fear. And if you're cruel. But they won't do it because they want to honor you. And if honor is something that you want in your relationship and is part of what you desire that D in the DNA For Fun, then, whatever boundaries you set for your kids is probably wise in many ways to keep for yourself as well.
That doesn't mean that if the kids go to bed at eight o'clock you that you go to bed then too. But it does mean that if you expect the kids to get a good night's sleep and keep a reasonable bedtime, then that's probably wise for you too. You're a little different age, you might have a different bedtime.
Let's talk about the why. Why do we have boundaries? Mostly to keep our relationships safe. Physically safe, and also to keep our relationship emotionally safe, to keep it sometimes spiritually safe and socially safe, mentally safe. Boundaries have all different ways of working their way into a relationship. We're going to try to keep them sort of simplified today by thinking about our relationship with our spouse or with our kids, as a boat. Yes. The boat is a separate entity. You and your spouse and your family are inside it. The boat has a structure around it, to help it float, even in stormy weather. And our relationships need some structure around them, to help them float, even in stormy weather.
So some rules in a boat might be. Stay seated, stay calm. Wear appropriate clothing. Have knowledge about how to run and ride in a boat. Be willing to learn from others and take input in from others about what they see out and around. Have good safety gear on board. To make sure that the boundary of the boat stays afloat. Practice your boating skills. Practice your boundary skills on purpose, with intention.
All of those are good rules for being in a boat. You might know of some other ones that you can add. Let's start with this one. Stay seated, and stay calm. Those are usually good rules in the family. This doesn't mean don't move or don't change. It means do it wisely, with awareness of how, what you do, will impact other people.
My pontoon boat is very old, very old. And it does not have the stabilizers or the balancers in it that the newer boats do. So when one person moves from one side to the other. Everybody has to adjust or be a bit ready because that boat’s gonna tip. It's not going to tip over. But it's going to tip. And if we all become frightened about it, then the boat feels far more unstable than what it really is. And it makes everybody a little scared. There are times for you to realize that if what you're riding in is a little rough then move slowly. Use boundaries like these: Talk a little more softly. Don't make sudden changes. Tell people when you're going to make a change, so that they could adjust with you and keep the whole relationship floating without fear.
Let's move a little bit further along, because the question can be,
"Well how in the world do you help a two year old stay calm on a boat or at home??"
We're doing a fair amount of boating this summer. And we have some little ones. We have to help them know the rules. We can tell them the rules, but they are two. We have to tell them the rules every time. We don't just tell them the rules. We also show them the rules over and over and over again. We live it with them, by being seated in the boat. We have to remember their brain is little and young, and they are just trying to figure out what and how to live. Just like, what are we doing in a boat? What is this like?? Every new circumstance for them is, "How do I do this? I don't know what to do!" And their first reaction, often is one that has fear in it because they're not sure what they're supposed to do. They're going to look for you for that guidance. So you can help them along the way by holding their hand, telling them how to do it, showing them how to do it, cheering them on if they do it right.
That, then will help them learn the rules in their mind, but will also help them know how to live the rule in their body. So when we say, "Step on the little rug." They know what we mean by "little rug" and where to put their little foot. When we say,"Hang on to the window right here", we put their little hand on it. And we're showing them how to get their body transitioned from the dock into the boat. We're working with their brain architecture.
Remember, we're setting up their brain architecture. That is the basic idea of how their brain is going to function. It develops in those first five years of life. We talked more about this in Module One of the DNA For Fun.
We have to help them understand how to live the rule. I really don't care if the kids know how to get in and out of a boat. I want them to learn the rules in your house. And that one of the rules is follow mom and dad because they are safe. They will show you and they will protect you and they are for you. Keep these interactions with your little ones as calm as they can be. This helps your littles hear you and comprehend what you are saying. It's calm, uses touch, and it shows or demonstrates. That's part one.
Okay, their brain is going so fast, changing so many ways. We often have to redirect, and this needs to be done gently. Remember, their brains freeze - out of fear. They can't think and they can't actually even hear your words. So, when we do gentle words of, "Come this way. Let's try it this way instead. Can you help me take care of..." Those gentle words said eye to eye with them, encouraging them that they're not in trouble, that you're with it and you're going to help them do it, is the best way to correct them. And to help them do it right.
Our kiddos are not defant by nature. They might be confused., They might have in their mind, in THEIR mind much bigger, more important needs or tasks to do. If you can find out what that need is, they can help you and them cooperate and trust each other. So I have one little person who wants to stay in boat. But, the boat is docked and everybody's getting out. We're saying, "Come on, come on!" and he's leaning over the front of the boat. What is he needing to do?? He obviously does not think he needs to get out of the boat. So finally I go up to the front of the boat and bend over the boat trying to figure out what his little two and a half year old eyes are looking at. "What do you need down there?" But he has figured out that when the boat sits still he could see the fish. And that's what he needs to do! See the fish! And so, if we take 30 seconds and watch the fish, then we can say, "Let's go get some supper." And then we both will come out of the boat. His first need was to see the fish . They fascinate him. I can fight with him and we can say, "Get over here, get off the boat!!" And we can go and grab him and he will cry and fuss. Or we can just go find out why he is not responding, what does he think he needs to do? It's their brain architecture, and just the way that little person's brain is thinking that sometimes supersedes what we're thinking.
As we teach them that we will honor their thoughts, they will also learn to honor ours. Not in one time or two times, but over the course of time. We are parenting for the long haul. So, far with boundaries. We said, help them know the rules, teach them, show them in knowing the rules, redirect gently.
And thirdly, be reasonable. Now remember we're trying to keep our boat afloat. This means that you have to have boundaries that are consistent with your goals. Otherwise kids get confused. What do you want the end of this boat ride of being married forever while you parent together to be like? Do you want it to be screaming, or fearful or jumpy or dangerous. Or do you want it rather to have fun , with some adventures along the way, because you trust the boat. You trust the driver, and you trust the other riders. We have to be reasonable in what we're expecting our boat to do, and what we're expecting the people in the boat to do. My boats are not made for going across the ocean. They're made for Michigan lakes. It would not be wise for me to try to take my boats across the ocean. And there are times when we stress, and stretch our relationship to be way more than what it was ever meant to be.
It doesn't mean that if we've decided to take our relationship in a very different direction we don't go get a different boat with some different boundaries around it. Because that boat will take us then on that journey. Your everyday boat has to be reasonably made to stay afloat. You can see where my desire would be within my boat, as I work towards reasonableness, right? I want everybody in the boat to enjoy themselves, but first of all I want them to be safe. So I'm gonna remind my little ones to stay on their knees or stay on their bottom. I'm going to sit by them with my arm around them, especially when they're scared because we're going too fast - which is too fast for them, not too fast for safety -but too fast for them. I'm gonna be reasonable, as I stretch their boundaries, about experiences. And I'm going to help them see that we're not going to put them in danger. We're going to keep them safe. And we talk about things to help them understand what we're doing for safety.
The kids had some fun language the other day, that was sort of intriguing.They were trying to figure out why they were wearing life jackets and the adults in the boat were not. And I said, "Well, you guys ride in a car seat, right?" And they agreed. So I said, "Well your life jacket is sort of like your car seat, and eventually you will sort of out grow that." Oh, they thought that made some sense. You see, when we are reasonable about our expectations and we can explain it, then they more easily go along with it.
They don't fight climbing in their car seat, and they don't fight, wearing their life jacket in the boat. They could see that it was meant for safety, and that it made it more fun.
As you build boundaries with your kiddos, continue to think about how it helps them live freely and safely. And there's that balance: freely has freedom to move and safely, sometimes restricts movements. And there's a balance between those two. With our little ones we teach them, we show them, we'd let them try to do some of it on their own with some supervision. And then we let them do it by themselves, perhaps with a watchful eye, until there's confidence that they can and will do the task could just fine. Dandy, Right? The same is true at home. Listen again. Start with teaching safely, reminding them, showing them, distracting them when they're overwhelmed so that their body and brain can reset to a better sense of normal. Affirm their little efforts and keep them close enough so that you can keep them safe, as they grow in understanding of your language and grow in their own language. Just be patient. They're going to grow and understand your language, and they're going to learn how to say things better in your language.
A couple of weeks ago I had a little guy say something to me - I think 20 times! I tried paying attention.I looked away, then I listened again. Then he just kept saying it and saying, I finally figured it out. He wanted yogurt. Oh, it took me a while!! This little guy was patient with me. He didn't get mad. He just kept saying it over and over and over again. Like, "You'll get it Grandma, you'll get it." He just kept saying it. Remember, you have to say it sometimes 20 times too. They'll get it because you have to say it a lot, patiently.
As you show them what to do, live it yourself. It's good to tell them why. Not scary, just why. "Why do we wear life jackets in the boat."
"So that if you happen to bounce out, you're safe."
"Why would I be safe if I bounce out of the boat in my life jacket."
Well, because you always float your life jacket! "
"Yes, I do."
" Okay, good. Then we turn the boat right around it, we come and get you." They think about that for a little bit. Then we talk about swimming off the back of the boat, and they realize it's fun to swim out in the middle of the lake with my lifejacket on. I just bounced around over the waves.
We're gonna just talk and give them information as simply and cleanly as we can.
You know, they're gonna break the rules! They're little. That's what they do. And you're gonna have a consequence to that, that matches their age, and their level of development. So you might have a rule that says, when you're three you have to put your silverware into the dishwasher silverware holder. And they don't. They're off and they're playing and they didn't grab that silverware whatsoever. So you can have that consequence of being something like no bedtime snack. Not sure our three year olds are going to understand the connection well but a four year old might. Probably your better bet is to quickly grab that little three year olds hand and help them wash the silverware under the water faucet by hand. So they might like it that they're getting a little extra attention. Don't ever worry about giving a little kiddo, a little bit more attention. Teach them that you mean what you say and follow up, because that builds their confidence in you, and then they will know that you were in it with them, even if you're right by their side, or you're not.
Giving them a little bit of attention will almost always help their fear factor calm down, and they will be able to cooperate a little bit more. So bonus hugs, high fives for getting done, for trying to get it done, for beating the timer, is almost always a good idea. Putting one kid against the other, competing one kid against the other usually is going to end up with somebody in tears. It ends up putting up a winner and a loser. And now you're going to have to mitigate that somehow. You're better off going against a timer, or just making it so that you can give everybody a high five, somewhere along the way. Yes, you're right. This takes a lot of parental personal self control! The DNA For Fun module two is going to talk about Managing the Emotional Me as you lead. They are going to follow. Your calmness will bring them to calmness. Not instantly, but a whole lot sooner than if you blow your stack and then have to get to calm and then try to get them to calm. Now you've moved that a whole way down the road.
Stay calm. Breathe out and just remember, we're gonna just work this so that my two, my three, my four, my five year olds can listen to me, and follow me. If you remember your desired goal for the event or the evening, or the boat ride, then, often ,that helps us stay calmer because we don't get so stuck in the moment and in the power struggle. We remember where we're headed in the long haul.
There's something here I think that's important to remember as we parent our kiddos and try to set boundaries for them. It's this: A kiddo often has to hear something five to seven times before their brain actually registers your words and their body can actually do the appropriate response. This is their brain at a young developmental age.
First sentence you say, "Bring your silverware to the dishwasher." They hear your tones, but they don't hear your words.
Second sentence: "Don't forget, grab your silverware and bring it to the dishwasher." And they hear some of those words. They might hear "grab" and then "dishwasher," but they don't hear the rest. You said them. It doesn't match what their brain is thinking, so they stay in their egocentric place developmentally. That's where they're supposed to be. And they dismiss your words. This is not disrespect. This is just brain development.
Sentence number three. "Hey, remember you got to grab your silverware and put it in the dishwasher:)" Now they'll hear more of your words in sentence three; your third time around. But they don't catch on to the actual request. They don't get this to translate into actual movement of making their fingers go around their silverware walking over to the dishwasher. They just hear the words.
Sentence four. "Hey remember you got to grab your silverware and bring it over to the dishwasher!" Now they hear your request, but they're trying to decide whose voice to listen to theirs, or yours.
Sentence five. "Hey, remember, you got to grab yourself aware, and bring it over to the dishwasher." Ohh, now they are listening to you, and they're trying to figure out how to move their body in your requested direction. They haven't figured it out yet but all of a sudden, the whole sentence made some sense to them.
Sentence six, "Are you grabbing your silverware and bringing it to the dishwasher?" They start to move. And whoops, they got distracted! The dog you walked by.
Sentence seven. "Did you grab your silverware? Look you almost have it. Let's get it to the dishwasher!" And now they could actually do what you asked.
You noticed my tone of voice stayed pretty consistent in it. It took seven times for them to actually get to do the task. Patience and wisdom unending, right?!? If you don't want it to take seven times, get a little more eye contact, a little more face to face, a little more touch and tone and words. Sometimes a three year old is going to be hard. Your four and five year olds will do it a little bit better. But if you can get them to say it back to you along with what they would need to do or what you're asking them to do, then you might get them to move a little faster.
Remember that boats don't stay afloat by creating drama. Keeping everyone calm and aware without fear, and with a lot of trust, is what makes a relationship and the boundaries in that relationship really good and sturdy. Remember we said boundaries are for safety. Because safety builds the trust in the boat and in the relationship. And it builds trust in the driver. That's you, the parent. All the other actions or behaviors from a kiddo come out of this place of trust, or a place of fear, if they sense that they're not safe.
So when your kid was misbehaving, check to see what they might be afraid of or anxious about. It often is a "nothing", nothing that matters, would be our response. But it means something important to them and their perspective matters. They are almost always looking for if they are approved, and if they are included. And so they can become very anxious when their siblings get their silverware in there first and know they are last and now they're excluded from going outside or playing on trampoline, or being a part of tag. That inclusion to them is far more important than the silverware. That doesn't mean you don't include the silverware gathering action. It means that you also affirm that they need to be outside with everybody else and they can do it.
You see, our kids want to be free. As long as they are safely tucked within the protection and the affirmation of your love and your guidance, setting boundaries around bedtime, around behavior, around words is wise. Do it consistently, do it together and do it kindly. You are worth it and your family is worth it. Thank you for listening today. I hope this is helpful and encouraging to you as you make it through the rest of summertime, and in the years and weeks ahead! I appreciate you taking the time to be a part of the Us And Kids podcast. The DNA for Fun Communications Course is up on the Us and Kids website,and can be purchased for just you as a couple right now. There are some good extra bonuses to go along with it. Of course if you have questions, email me at support@usandkids, and I'll get right back to you.
Take care, and enjoy you and your family. Being married forever while you parent together is certainly a wonderfully good adventure! Talk to you later. Bye bye.
